From: ste...@wolfe.net (Steve Hoffman)
Subject: Why did you have to buy it RIGHT AWAY???
Date: 1995/08/27
Message-ID: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 108943576
organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C.
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
I've been reading through all the angry posts about the setup and
other problems folks are having with Win95.
I'm honestly puzzled about why a relatively sophisticated
computer-user would run right out to be first on their block to
purchase this (or any other) new software. What's the point? Why not
wait a little while and check out other peoples' experiences before
investing your money and time? What exactly do you lose by doing
that?
I'm truly not trying to start an argument or flame-war here - just
trying to understand. Perhaps I'm missing something??
Steve
ste...@wolfe.net
Seattle, WA
From: doco...@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor -FT-~)
Subject: Re: Why did you have to buy it RIGHT AWAY???
Date: 1995/08/28
Message-ID: <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109006714
distribution: world
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net>
organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
ste...@wolfe.net (Steve Hoffman) writes:
] I'm honestly puzzled about why a relatively sophisticated
] computer-user would run right out to be first on their block to
] purchase this (or any other) new software. What's the point? Why not
] wait a little while and check out other peoples' experiences before
] investing your money and time?
Been there, done that. What, you mean you don't know someone
who was a Win95 Beta tester ? I ran into 3 of them in CompUSA
Wednsday night. They really liked it. They were right : I bought
it, installed it, really liked it too.
] What exactly do you lose by doing that?
Why, time, of course, the one thing you can never get back
once it is gone. Win95 is just plain faster at a lot of
things than Win3.11 was.
] Perhaps I'm missing something??
You must have at least _heard_ about the largest beta-site
program ever, right ? A stroke of marketting genius, that was.
--
Dennis O'Connor doco...@sedona.intel.com
i960(R) Architecture and Core Design Not an Intel spokesman.
TIP#518 Fear is the enemy.
From: nit...@primenet.com
Subject: Re: Why did you have to buy it RIGHT AWAY???
Date: 1995/09/01
Message-ID: <427oud$r3o@nnrp3.primenet.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109310860
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net> <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>
organization: Primenet
reply-to: nit...@primenet.com
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
In <DOCONNOR.A...@sedona.intel.com>, doco...@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor -FT-~)
writes:
>You must have at least _heard_ about the largest beta-site
>program ever, right ? A stroke of marketting genius, that was.
Er, actually I think the Aug. 24 release will probably be the largest beta program.
Marketing Genius? Marketing such a bug-filled program, let alone an os, and calling
it the final release, should be illegal.
***********************************************************************************
Night Song The answer isn't microsoft,
http://www.primenet.com/~niteson The question is microsoft,
The answer is no.
***********************************************************************************
From: hob...@netcom.com (Hugh Appet)
Subject: Re: Why did you have to buy it RIGHT AWAY???
Date: 1995/09/02
Message-ID: <hobsonDE9HD3.7Ly@netcom.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109365510
sender: hob...@netcom21.netcom.com
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net> <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>
<427oud$r3o@nnrp3.primenet.com>
organization: FLORANET
reply-to: hob...@interport.net
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
In article <427oud$r...@nnrp3.primenet.com>,
nit...@primenet.com says...
>
>In <DOCONNOR.A...@sedona.intel.com>,
doco...@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'
>Connor -FT-~) writes:
>>You must have at least _heard_ about the largest
beta-site
>>program ever, right ? A stroke of marketting genius,
that was.
>
>Er, actually I think the Aug. 24 release will probably
be the largest beta progr
>am.
>Marketing Genius? Marketing such a bug-filled program,
let alone an os, and cal
>ling
>it the final release, should be illegal.
>
What really pisses me off is that the upgrade is $89.00.
The plus cdrom which I understand has a couple of the
same utilities only improved costs $49.00 and the
resource kit, which contains the manual that should have
come with the upgrade costs $50.00. For $89.00, couldn't
they have included a manual with some information and
the improved versions of drivespace etc?
--
hob...@netcom.com
hob...@interport.net
http://www.interport.net/~hobson
From: wa...@blarg.com (Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin)
Subject: Re: Why did you have to buy it RIGHT AWAY???
Date: 1995/09/04
Message-ID: <42fp54$8ps@animal.blarg.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109536785
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net> <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>
<427oud$r3o@nnrp3.primenet.com> <hobsonDE9HD3.7Ly@netcom.com>
followup-to: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
organization: I need to put my ORGANIZATION here.
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
Hugh Appet (hob...@netcom.com) wrote:
: What really pisses me off is that the upgrade is $89.00.
: The plus cdrom which I understand has a couple of the
: same utilities only improved costs $49.00 and the
: resource kit, which contains the manual that should have
: come with the upgrade costs $50.00. For $89.00, couldn't
: they have included a manual with some information and
: the improved versions of drivespace etc?
If you want the resource kit manuals on a separate set of floppies, pay
the extra $50 and be happy.
If you aren't that fussy, download them from the Internet or MS's
BBS, or simply look around on the Win95 CDROM.
From: Cope...@ix.netcom.com (Ron Copeland)
Subject: Manuals
Date: 1995/09/07
Message-ID: <42m7u3$5h@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109723191
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net> <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>
<427oud$r3o@nnrp3.primenet.com> <hobsonDE9HD3.7Ly@netcom.com>
<42fp54$8ps@animal.blarg.net>
organization: Netcom
x-netcom-date: Thu Sep 07 12:45:07 AM PDT 1995
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
wa...@blarg.com (Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin) wrote:
>If you want the resource kit manuals on a separate set of floppies, pay
>the extra $50 and be happy.
Call me anachronistic, but I like it when manuals come on *paper*.
Besides, the resource kit is too technical for most uses. Win95
should have come bundled with a 300-400 page users manual aimed at
getting users up and running, and providing a beginner to intermediate
level reference source.
I think Microsoft's failure to provide decent documentation is
unprofessional and beneath a company of their stature. I'm not buying
shareware here, but the flagship product of the largest software
company in the world. Microsoft took shortcuts in it's product but
spent massive amounts to hype it. Is this an initial indication of
the future quality of Microsoft products and services?
Later,
Ron
From: je...@clark.net (jerry)
Subject: Re: Manuals
Date: 1995/09/08
Message-ID: <42pc06$3jj@clarknet.clark.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109723040
references: <41qekp$g78@news1.wolfe.net> <DOCONNOR.Aug28202233@sedona.intel.com>
<427oud$r3o@nnrp3.primenet.com> <hobsonDE9HD3.7Ly@netcom.com>
<42fp54$8ps@animal.blarg.net> <42m7u3$5h@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
<42obru$eeo@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
followup-to: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
mime-version: 1.0
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
Nelson Ingersoll (inge...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: >Call me anachronistic, but I like it when manuals come on *paper*.
: >Besides, the resource kit is too technical for most uses. Win95
: >should have come bundled with a 300-400 page users manual aimed at
: >getting users up and running, and providing a beginner to intermediate
: >level reference source.
:
: >I think Microsoft's failure to provide decent documentation is
: >unprofessional and beneath a company of their stature. I'm not buying
: >shareware here, but the flagship product of the largest software
: >company in the world. Microsoft took shortcuts in it's product but
: >spent massive amounts to hype it. Is this an initial indication of
: >the future quality of Microsoft products and services?
:
: I disagree. A 300-400 page user manual would have added more cost
: to the product. There are several Win95 'Secrets' books out which
: would likely serve you as well or better than a 400 page Microsoft
: manual. And I don't have to buy them.
:
: On one point, however, we might see eye-to-eye. I would have been
:
: pleased to see a printable manual on the CD-ROM. There's plenty of
: space, and we could almost have our cake and eat it too.
:
: - Nelson ...
:
:
:
Hi!
I agree with Ron. MS should have provided a hardcopy manual. Why didn't
they include one? I have two guesses: GREED and TIME. For the $89
upgrade what percentage is profit when you include only 1 CD ROM and no
manual? 92% To produce a decent manual would have even further delayed
the already embarrassed MS.
Jerry
From: sha...@babylon.jpl.nasa.gov (Shahen Petrosian)
Subject: Re: Manuals
Date: 1995/09/22
Message-ID: <43v1tu$cc6@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 110571627
references: <42m7u3$5h@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <42obru$eeo@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
<42pc06$3jj@clarknet.clark.net>
content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, FIST Lab, 301-284A
mime-version: 1.0
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
In article <42pc06$3...@clarknet.clark.net> je...@clark.net (jerry) writes:
>Nelson Ingersoll (inge...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: >Call me anachronistic, but I like it when manuals come on *paper*.
>: >Besides, the resource kit is too technical for most uses. Win95
<snip>
>Hi!
>
>I agree with Ron. MS should have provided a hardcopy manual. Why didn't
>they include one? I have two guesses: GREED and TIME. For the $89
>upgrade what percentage is profit when you include only 1 CD ROM and no
>manual? 92% To produce a decent manual would have even further delayed
>the already embarrassed MS.
>
>Jerry
>
As someone mentioned before, the help files are very informative.
Considering the millions of copies sold and the millions that
will be sold in the future, I think it would be environmentally
irresponsible for MS to provide hard copies of information that
they can provide otherwise. I think they are doing the right thing.
Shahen.
From: brian_t...@mindlink.bc.ca (Brian Thurston)
Subject: Re: Manuals
Date: 1995/09/24
Message-ID: <442ojq$ahj@fountain.mindlink.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 110632592
references: <42m7u3$5h@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <42obru$eeo@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
<42pc06$3jj@clarknet.clark.net> <43v1tu$cc6@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov>
organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup
sha...@babylon.jpl.nasa.gov (Shahen Petrosian) wrote:
>In article <42pc06$3...@clarknet.clark.net> je...@clark.net (jerry) writes:
>>Nelson Ingersoll (inge...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>: >Call me anachronistic, but I like it when manuals come on *paper*.
>>: >Besides, the resource kit is too technical for most uses. Win95
>
> <snip>
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>I agree with Ron. MS should have provided a hardcopy manual. Why didn't
>>they include one? I have two guesses: GREED and TIME. For the $89
>>upgrade what percentage is profit when you include only 1 CD ROM and no
>>manual? 92% To produce a decent manual would have even further delayed
>>the already embarrassed MS.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>As someone mentioned before, the help files are very informative.
>Considering the millions of copies sold and the millions that
>will be sold in the future, I think it would be environmentally
>irresponsible for MS to provide hard copies of information that
>they can provide otherwise. I think they are doing the right thing.
>Shahen.
I happen to enjoy computer manuals and love to sit back with 5 lbs of
pulp fibre and ink. I also understand that most manual are rarely
opened. MS probably new they would be deluged with calls whether they
included a manual or not. Manuals only help when people read and
understand them.
I have found the included documentation on the CD ROM up to date and
easily scanned. Errors and omissions are few. A few of my clients have
had difficulty and when referred to the CD documentation still insist
on my leading them through the procedure step by step.
I also agree that the environmental impact of producing 10s of
millions of manuals which may not be used would be grave. I still go
crazy when I see the stacks to telephone books that are discarded
every year that could be replaced by a single CD rom.
As for MS making money on Windows 95 - that is the point of being in
business, isn't it? I happen to think that W95 is a pretty good
bargain for under $100.
If you wish to purchase the paper version of the Resource Kit it is
available now along with a CD for about $50. Another pretty good deal.
Just one guys opinion.
Regards,
Brian.